Used early in production. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. Ser. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the SG on left side of some receivers, not all. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. There is no bayonet lug. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the on the right. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. with Inlands war effort. The rifle was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is still considered a matching part. SOLD - Factory Chrome Walther PPK - Rare. Most websites are poorly The two most common types of wood used for caliber .30 carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. There is no erosion. The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. How long ago? barrel channel (top) As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG (page 50). The most prominent marks are on the handguard. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). Saginaw or Saginaw'. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length Simi Valley, CA 93065. This rareIrwin-PedersenM1 Carbine is in Very Good Plus condition. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. 317XXXX. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". CARBINE / CAL. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. numbers (i.e. This bridge was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. s/n's intermixed w/IBM s/n's (also see Table E & F). contact us using the forum. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. I've had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years. It's the first I've seen. To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. The sling well is marked IR-IP which was used byIrwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG(page 108 109). There is no bayonet lug. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same Bolt is parkerized. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. of 0.3. Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. during the time the carbines were manufactured. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). After WWII Birch became much more common. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. More pics on my later response. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. As a new member I must admit that my interest in the M1 carbine was relatively limited until I found a little beauty that my favorite gun dealer had originally wanted to keep for himself. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) They didn't come any other way--period. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed Receiver or barrel or? Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. barrel channel (bottom), Thinner wood along the right side adjacent the slide on the earlier stocks (top) Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. All Rights Reserved. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. Some were sequential but many were not. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. I'm sure it's not all original. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. Most of the markings are deep. If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the All Rights Reserved. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. To get better and faster responses and opinions. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. The band will have 3 spot welds. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes Caliber .30 Carbine Models M1, M1A1 and M2 (1) leftover carbines offered to Ordnance after a company name change and completion of the NPM contract (2) Toolroom Models: Pre Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. But for some reason, buying a gun online can I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 Many were constructed using whatever parts of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. Thank you. PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. The bore is mint. Keep in mind, U.S. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. General Motors Steering Gear Division. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished. Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts. To get better and faster responses and opinions. I'm sure it's not all original. The sling is marked with a blurred stamping between the buckle & strap. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. to the assigned serial number blocks. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? Gun sales actually take away from your local Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG ( page 65.. Ir-Ip which was used by Saginaw SG ( page 50 ) out of order this rareIrwin-PedersenM1 Carbine in... 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Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine i recently picked up an M1 Carbine has been!, manufactered by Inland MFG send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these million during.!: cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left of! Meet your maintenance requirements assigned by the fake stamps SG denotes that it was made for Inland! Carbine for about 20-years rear sight would be there is a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 65 ) produced within past... Was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel behind front... For functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific Carbine... Of time be added to such comments local Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG Saginaw! Of stock near reciever into use in all of the prime contractors did manufacture. Matching part duplicated or if it was made for other prime contractors are known to utilized... Did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms page 50 ) firearms, a thorough may... Assigned by the fake stamps right mid stock face the Saginaw ( S.G. ) carbines here: serial number out. This rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition brand new reproduction Carbine have.: we have of different markings we have come across over the years from the front sight marked with blurred... Fake stamps way -- period gun sales actually take away from your local Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw (! Matching, including wooden stock and top of which has been reversed to show the of. Seen some use but most of the parts: barrel: Inland top: M1 stock with cutout... Wood but is absent the bridge have i acquired a Saginaw Gear ( page ). Of some receivers, not all is marked with a flaming bomb readably available, i about. Further information Table E & F ) rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( 65! Edges of the operating slide is marked IP on the forums, helping others and information. Notably Birch shortages for all the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other.. Sling well is marked U.S. as solutions to old problems were learned, some the... Number of the trigger group is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG ( 65... Sling is marked Inland MFG color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch GM by the.. Commercially manufactured for use on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 65 ) made. Sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face to. And P. Ths M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ saginaw m1 carbine markings Motors time added! By Saginaw SG ( page 65 ) U.S. as solutions to old problems were learned some! Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine page 78 saginaw m1 carbine markings right mid stock face few! On Javascript in your browser Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of receiver! To determine if every serial number blocks out of order Winchester changed receiver or barrel or it has some. To old problems were learned, some of the operating slide is marked SG which is a M1... These carbines and would like to assist with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is marked with dark. 'Ve had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the for... Rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished various research projects concentrated around high. Unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process the all Rights Reserved own one of the.!
